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tips for linux, gaming etc all-rounder

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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
tips for linux, gaming etc all-rounder Old Tue Dec 6, 2005 1:54:09 PM #13872 Perm Link
So, christmas is approaching and I told my mom money for a new computer or computer parts would be cool since my sys is gettin' a bit old. then she asked me to write down what components i would like to buy. Zombie no clue ... Maybe you guys can give me some tips ?
I think a system upgrade could possibly save some money, especially as my optical drives still work fine and I doubt I'll have need for faster or larger drives any time soon.
my current system: »http://www.aseville.com/systems.php?id=44

I definatey want it to be 100% linux compatible and the most power-demanding tasks I use the box for are gaming (this system sucks at modern gamez) and digital video editing. (I will also use it for programming, web design and possibly OS virtualization for testing)

but, I am no expert on hardware, so I cannot say what is good for me. and what not-so-expensive products give me what power.

What components would you recomend for my purposes ? Which not ? Please tell me what you think. if the system specs are too vague, please say so.


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Aron Schatz Avatar 2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep: PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 1 (332767)
Re: tips for linux, gaming etc all-rounder Old Tue Dec 6, 2005 2:03:42 PM #13873 Perm Link
In response to free::zombie #13872
Gather the parts to build a new one.

You could go with a cheaper P4 or Athlon. The Athlon 64 or the Northwood Pentium 4C would be a great value. Get a Nvidia board for the Athlon or a Intel/Asus Springdale board for the Pentium 4.

RAM is DDR so that's no biggie.

Nvidia graphics seem to be better for Linux, onboard or external card. If you want a card, you could get a FX5600 or something cheap.

Serial ATA drives are coming down in price but Parallel ATA are still cheaper, go for that.

Invest in a DVDRW for backing up.

Don't skimp on the power supply. Get an Antec.

A price range would be helpful.

Welcome to the boards.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!
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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
(No Title) Old Wed Dec 7, 2005 5:40:46 AM #13875 Perm Link
Smile a change in concept.
my mom clarified it all and told me to write down what I would like, regardless of the price. She also said that my dad just ordered upgrades for his pc that nearly cost as much as her relatively new pc.
So now I'll have more thoughts on more expensive parts, like dual core CPU.
will a dual core cpu lower, increase or not affect performance at all for gaming and video editing ?
I was thinking about using (well, wishing for...) something built on
mainboard: Abit KN8 Ultra ( /w NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ) (german description: http://www.alternate.de/html/shop/productDetails.html?showTechData=true&artno=GHEB12&#tecData)
cpu: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Manchester)
2GiB DDR Ram (this is more the 'wish' side of things... atm at least.)

not sure about the other components yet. comments ?


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Aron Schatz Avatar 2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep: PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 1 (332767)
(No Title) Old Wed Dec 7, 2005 7:20:50 AM #13880 Perm Link
In response to free::zombie #13875
RAM is cheap. I'd go with the 2GB. It is better to shoot for the sky.

A dual core CPU will NOT run games as fast as a higher clocking single core CPU unless the system is bogged down with doing background processes. A normal Athlon 64 or FX will run better if it is faster (in terms of GHz). I'm going with an Pentium D 830 which is a 400MHz drop from my 3.4 single core Pentium 4. It may be a tiny bit slower but I can do more stuff at once.

Eventually games will start to take advantage of this multiple core attitude. It would be easy to split the AI and game engine on two distinct core yielding a performance increase.

Getting a dual core is more of a future proofing thing, but not if you are sacrificing pure speed.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!
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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
(No Title) Old Wed Dec 7, 2005 9:30:36 AM #13881 Perm Link
now I realize how difficult it is to find the right components for a pc...
my list until now:

mainboard: MSI K8N SLI-FI http://www.alternate.de/html/shop/productDetails.html?showTechData=true&artno=GHEM13&#tecData
cpu: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ http://www.alternate.de/html/shop/productDetails.html?showTechData=true&artno=HHEA08&#tecData
RAM: some DDR-DIMM 2x1024MiB (any performance defference to 4x512MiB ?)
hard disk: Samsung SP2004 SATA + old ATA 40GiB to preserve winXP if possible http://www.alternate.de/html/shop/productDetails.html?showTechData=true&artno=A9BU03&#tecData
optical: <some time> DVD RW , DVD-ROM out of old computer

all links are on alternate.de, which is the largest german hardware discounter.

wow, that adds up to quite a lot ...
I have no clue when it comes to cooling, power supply or graphics. tips ? comments to the hardware listed above ?


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Chris Reid Avatar Joined: August 1, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 51 Rep: PIP Level 2 (1386)PIP Level 1 (1386)PIP Level 1 (1386)PIP Level 1 (1386)PIP Level 1 (1386)
(No Title) Old Wed Dec 7, 2005 11:42:57 AM #13882 Perm Link
You will see signicant performance with an AMD Athlon 64 3000+, the MSI K8M800 MicroATX Motherbard w/ PCI Express and RAID 0,1 SATA w/ Onboard Video, Sound, Etc, that MSI board is a very inexpensive choice and performs very well.

I don't think you'll see too much performance boost with more than 1GB of RAM because Windows sucks so badly at managing it. For video editing, you want fast hard drives.

Expensive Route

Max Performance = 4 Serial ATA2 Hard Drives running RAID-0 on a Promise TX4300 FastTrak Controller Card
Max Performance + Max Reliability (But you lose half the space) = 4 Serial ATA2 Hard Drives running RAID 0+1 on the same card

This still leaves you extra room to use the onboard RAID controller on the MSI motherboard too, plus the two IDE controllers for a total of 6 more drives.

Or the cheaper route:

Use your onboard RAID controller and configure it for your liking.

Performance = 2 Drives (RAID 0)
Reliability = 2 Drives (RAID 1)

Then just toss in a couple LG DVD burners, floppy drive (you'll need one for the promise card drivers), and the most expensive video card you can afford and you'll have an awesome tower.

BUT, I would spend more money on the screen for your computer, than on your computer. You really can't get that much performance gains for the stuff you're doing by going to Dual Core and in my opinion they're really not worth the money. The limitations these days is the rate at which you can load the data to and from the drives. Most users these days have gigs of images, music, movies, etc. that they need to move around on their system very quickly. If you start to do alot of DVD Encoding and stuff, there is hardware you can add to your machine that is cheaper than spending $500+ on a CPU.

Get a nice large screen, and if you are planning to game alot, get a 8ms or 6ms one if you can get her to pay for it. Just say 'I need this for games, or it won't work', even though it would if you had a 12ms one or 16ms. Wink
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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
(No Title) Old Wed Dec 7, 2005 12:38:08 PM #13883 Perm Link
ok, the cpu and motherboard i chose mightt have been a little over-the-top, but in future games I am sure dual core will help. I read that it helps in far cry already.
RAM: I will only use windows for gaming and video editing. everything else, and maybe a few games running natively or in cedega will be linux, possibly 64-bit linux.
drives are definately a point where i should do some thinking, though I'll go without the floppy. if I need to read or write a floppy, there are old computers in the house. if I need it in the new computer then I'll get a floppy from an old comp temporarly.
a big screen - hmmm - would be nice, but video cards and drives are probably more important now.

(late) EDIT:
I have spent the afternoon (re)designing my wish list. I have added generic wish descriptions ... just in case. square brackets indicate "would be cool, but is no strict requirement." I would like some input from people like you with a lot of expierience in hardware on this before giving it to my parents.

Motherboard:
Socket 939, PCIe x16 [with SLI], nVidia nForce4
eg MSI K8N SLI-FI

CPU:
Socket 939, AMD Athlon 64 [X2]
eg AMD Athlon 46 X2 3800+

RAM:
DDR 400 ;; 2x512MiB [ or more. always 2 equal. ]
eg 2x A-DATA DIMM 512 MB DDR-400

hard disk:
2x fast S-ATA II
eg 2x Samsung HD080HJ

optocal drives:
P-ATA DVD-RW
eg BenQ DW-1640 black

graphics:
nVidia, PCIe x16, [[ 256bit bus, 256MiB ]]
eg XFX 6800GS Extreme XXX

power supply:
>= 400W note to ASE geeks: not at all sure about this
eg CoolerMaster eXtremePower 430W

case:
eg MS-Tech LC-401 schwarz

Edited at Thu Dec 8, 2005 4:59:05 PM

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Aron Schatz Avatar 2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep: PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 3 (332767)PIP Level 1 (332767)
(No Title) Old Thu Dec 8, 2005 10:42:43 AM #13887 Perm Link
In response to free::zombie #13883
I'd go with better quality RAM like Micron or Cosrair and such. Coolermaster may make good power supplies, I just don't know. I know that Sparkle or Enermax or Antec make good quality ones. SLI is overrated, spending double for one generation ahead performance is not worth it.

What about monitor? Input devices?

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!
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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
(No Title) Old Thu Dec 8, 2005 11:22:09 AM #13888 Perm Link
I'll continue using my current monitor and HIDs.
Sony SDM71R TFT (17in, 1280x1024, vga)
some Logitech cordless desktop

I'll check on the power supply and ram again. thanks.

edit0: i've changed the RAm to "2x Corsair Value 512MB PC3200" . I'll keep the power supply as is on the list. it has positive reviews on alternate.de, which is, after all, the most prominent german online computer shop.

edit1: you're probably right on SLI. I'll not mention it after all.

=================

eidt2: I've had a talk with my dad this morning. we've agreed on the mainboard I listed, an AMD Athlon64 3200+, 1024 MiB RAM and a GeForce 6600 based graphix card. Whatever other stuff I need, espacially a power supply and faster hard disks, i'll order at christmas, when i've seen the stuff.
And I suppose he'll want to replace some celeron or so in my brother's pc with my p4, but i can build a server with a celeron, too.

Edited at Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:18:14 AM

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Thefremen Avatar LOL whut? Joined: September 29, 2002 Status: Offline Posts: 2475 Rep: PIP Level 2 (18167)PIP Level 2 (18167)PIP Level 2 (18167)PIP Level 2 (18167)PIP Level 2 (18167)
(No Title) Old Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:53:00 PM #13967 Perm Link
Yeah, coolermaster makes top-notch power supplies, IIRC reading in Maximum PC.
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free::zombie Avatar Joined: December 6, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 930 Rep: PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 2 (11347)PIP Level 1 (11347)
(No Title) Old Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:43:18 PM #14070 Perm Link
so I got the MSI mainboard, an Athlon64 3200+, 2x 512 MiB RAM, PCIe ASUS graphics card (I expect GeForce 6600, not sure yet tho), an artic cooling cpu fan and a Xilence 500W PSU (aparently the no-name brand they had at the local computer store when my Dad got a PSU for himself)

I plan to order 2 Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD SATA disks and connect them via RAID-0 on the onboard controller, a DVD writer and a black MS-Tech case (someone on ASEville has the same one in silver)


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